October 26, 2010

Throwing Out The Baby With The Bath Water

Being somewhat gone from the proceedings and precesses of those out there that have been continuing to go through religious realignment, has given me a pretty clear and unbiased picture starting to come through. That picture is really startling.

We have completely come to the correct realization that organized religion for the most part is complete bullshit. No problem with that. We threw out the bath water.

But them, we started questioning everything, like ourselves. We lost confidence in ourselves. Second guessing ourselves. If we were taken in by this, how can we trust our own judgement? I will tell you, that you were not taken in. How can this be? Because you just did not have enough information to make the correct decision. It wasn't deliberately being witheld from you. But we got the information anyway. How? Through bible study. The thing that our churches wanted us to do, caused us to fall away from the church. No, let me refrase that, we made the correct choice of moving towards God. But with the shaken confidence in ourselves, led us down roads that we never would have travelled if we still had the confidence in ourselves.

So in questioning our fitness for being wise judges, some have chosen not to choose, and there fore not be right or wrong. This to me is throwing out the baby. We have decided that instead of blaming the organization of humans, that do crap wrong all of the time, we started blaming the entity that was being exploited. We start saying that the entity that has sustained itself for thousands of years, really isn't there. Where are the druids, the followers of baal, and the followers of the aztec Gods that required human sacrifice. Yes the Hindus and Buhda have been around that long too. The bible even says there are other Gods. But do we reject what we once loved because someone else used there requtation badly. Would we hate Billy Graham if we found out that a group using his name without consent, got you to give a large amount of money to them? Just a thought.

But when cleaning the bathtub, it is as important to know what to throw away, as it is what to keep.


Erin said...

Hmm, are you referring to me? If not, you could be. :)

For one thing, I think the information was and is deliberately withheld. But that is another conversation.

A lot of what you say is true of my journey, with a few exceptions. It's not that I'm blaming the entity, it's that the entity makes no sense to me anymore. Or, better put, I have redefined the entity as I personally know it.

There are too many things in the biblical report of Christianity that I can't embrace. Such as, miracles. I spent 20 years in charismatic circles with the DEVOUT belief in massive and commonplace miracles. But I never saw one -- possibly a few small ones, that may or may not have been coincidences. And don't tell me the miracles were only in the bible to convince the people of the time. That's just an excuse.

Another thing, resurrection. It could have been an anomaly, but really, people have been trying to replicate that for thousands of years, and haven't. At least not in any way able to be documented.

I'm not ready to take the other track, though. I know there is something, I just am unable to define it. Maybe that makes me an agnostic...except I know I still experience spirit in my own, personal way. I know I feel God -- of some kind. But I even if I put aside the anger I have at the human error, there are still too many things about biblical belief that I can't embrace.

But yes, Jesus was a good one and I have loved learning what he stood for. For real, I mean, not the conservative rhetoric. I just don't know what my relationship is with him at this point. He has power in my life if only for his words and not in any ethereal sense.

I'm afraid the logic part of my brain has to refuse anything that doesn't make sense -- even while my spirit cries not to overreact too far.


Nate said...

Not just you by any means. A few. Logic has absolutely nothing to do with faith. And never will. But let me get to the questions you ask, and let me tell you my answers.

Miracles. God performed them much more in the past because he was the only way to make it happen. Now, with technology and other things that are available, not really necessary. To save someone's life now, he will just give you a compulsion to get a check up, find cancer early and get it fixed. In 500BC, not possible, so he had to take a hand himself. Also, he works through others. There are also many more people around to work through. When I have had a need, unspoken to anyone but God, it has been seen to by someone. 6 months in a row when unable to meet bills or find an acceptable job, people sent me money just in the amount needed. Even though the amount needed changed every month. I never did ask for any of it. Just one example. Another, leaving my job on Savannah, got a job offer from a company that I never applied to in this economy. God takes care of his own. Also numerous times when a very poor pastors child did our needs get taken care of.

Ressurection is indeed in the realm of God. The spirit, which wieghs 21 grams, and documented scientific fact, is attached to our bodies. When the body is no longer able to hold the spirit, the spirit leaves. God is said to be the controller of spirits, angels and demons alike. Just fixed Lazerus' body and reinstalled his spirit. Possesion and the like are when more than one spirit inhabits a body.

Remeber one thing about science. They don't even know why the sun shines. They can theorize a great deal, but none of it makes sense. Such as what fuel does in burn? where does it get the fuel? What is causing the burn? (on earth we need oxygen and an accelerant) Is it oxygen? if it is where does it come from? why hasn't it burned out in four billion years? Why will it get bigger? What will cause that? Science is nothing more than people explaining what God already knows and telling us what he has done. There are no new things under the sun.

Nothing that science can come up with can change one pure fact. They can only operate within the laws already in place. They cannot create the laws. I believe that God did create the laws.

Erin said...

Miracles are definitely a problem for me, such as you describe. Why? Because I haven't ever had that experience. I know many people who say they have.

So there are two options: either they are total coincidences, or I have never been deserving of what you describe. Which do you think is a better option for me?

21 grams? Isn't that a widely discredited study? Six test subjects are hardly a conclusive study, and of that, his results were entirely inconsistent. It's primarily an urban legend.

In any case, even if it were true, it doesn't evidence to me anything about resurrection.

As for science, it continues to prove as wrong things that the bible and it's followers believe to be fact. This is ongoing, and only says that science is superior to faith. Even Galileo said the bible is not a science text, and yet it's followers continue to insist it is.

You see my dilemmas, and there are many more. Yet, these don't discount to me the value of Jesus in my life...I'm just not sure where his place is.

Nate said...

The honest truth is there is too much information out there. You could search for your life time and not hit all of the info.

Science is crap for the most part. Yeah they can describe some stuff, but not nearly enough to even be called meddlers in the universe. For example. Our bodies are chemical engines. Doctors can not even begin to duplicate what happens in the human body. Or even really to begin to understand it. That is another thing. So I digress.

This is why I believe. Because if you think about where we all originally come from. There should be nothing here. Big bang, OK where did the stuff for that come from. We are a dream someone is dreaming. Great where did the stuff for that person come from. The truth is, no one, can say where anything came from. So, we should not logically exist at all. Since we can not exist, the fact that we exist at all is an impossibility. Since the impossible is actual possible, because I exist, anything is possible.

Trust your feelings. Trust your heart. What do you feel is right? The mind is wrong too often. It asks too many questions and is never satisfied. It always is looking for more.

Also, if you have never had to have the type of experience that God had to interfere. Be happy, having no where to turn to on this earth sucks. Also, people get pissed that God doesn't give them what they want. Most times, God just moves people to take care of the need because He knows you need it.

I can't convince you to believe. But if you think about it long enough. You will talk yourself out of it.

Erin said...

I appreciate your arguments, Nate, and the time you have taken here. But the truth is, I have far too many doubts to blindly believe these days. It has to MAKE INTELLECTUAL SENSE or I am unable to accept it. Maybe I have crossed over, but that's where I am. I get that the faithful say that logic has nothing to do with it, but I can't accept that anymore. I just haven't had it, known it, experienced it.

On the other hand, I cannot move forward into a place where there is no "God" of any sort. I have too deep of a metaphysical sense of there being more than science understands. This doesn't mean there is a biblical God, not in my mind...but neither am I an atheist.